Honda Adventure Riders Forum
Welcome to the Honda Adventure Riders Forum - Introduce Yourself and News Facts => News from Honda => Topic started by: Two Plugs on May 01, 2013, 00:19:35
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Maybe we should ask the guys from Honda who are participating at OUR annual VCIM meeting, this month in Wales... Maybe its another 'fake' message which we have seen so often in the past...
I can't read or translate Italian, perhaps some one out there can?
Googletranslate of the title results in:
"Return to Off-road to attack the crisis. The honda is working on the new edition of Africa Twin and a aconomica XR250"
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No.
Among much blah blah, the article says that a Japanese magazine has published rumours about Honda being developing a new "endurona" (big trail).
It adds that this bike should be on the market in 2011 or at latest in 2012.
Josep
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Sorry guys but i cant believe in fairytails and rumours ,superman is dead and batman is 80 years old .Africa and Varadero are history and its too sad because many generations so far raised with those models.
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Just curios what the Honda delegation at VIM#15 said??
They liked our own improvements in our bikes but we need a fantastic machine to improve...
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Just curios what the Honda delegation at VIM#15 said??
They asked a lot of questions.
They listened a lot.
They said very little other than "they were disappointed the crosstourer was not selling well".
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Understandable.
Most users don't start to cut, drill and customize a bike that is still under 5 year warranty. Maybe it is overpriced. Good engine, good balance but still a tourer and not an adventurer.
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For those who can read/understand German Read here (http://www.africa-twin.at/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2909)! It's the Austrian Africa Twin Forum. Its to long for me to translate and my engloish is to bad ...
The man who begins the Thread is the Product Manager (Mr. Roland Berger) of Honda Europe and was involved in the Development of the Varadero ...
The new "Africa Twin" should come with a motor which comes from the Honda Dakar Bike - the CRF 450, not with one cylinder ... but with two - so it will have 900cm³ ...
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Well... since I can read German... ;D
Tnx for the link, Kurt, but it says - again - nothing... But I WOULD LOVE a new Honda dual purpose bigtrail bike as stated. A lot.
... I even would trade in my new Varadero for that, if the specs & prices are OK ... :o
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Kurt, as far as I can understand, the last posts in the thread comment the feasibility of a new AfricaTwin. By using already existent components and such, and even assessing how many kg more would come from mandatory ABS, catalisator,...
But I can read nowhere that a new AT is indeed to be made...
Also, in the first post, from Nov 2011, the man seems to suggest that a bike with the features you had described (and I believe many have in mind) is about to be made, even if not immediately. Nothing's been seen so far, in spite of he "ich bei Honda einen kleinen Einflusz habe" (he's got some influence).
BTW Kurt, I agree with your demand of a good seat, so that "man Etappen von ca. 500 km fahren kann ohne sich Hämmorhoiden oder eine Steißbeinprellung zu holen" (I guess Steissbeinprellung=sore arse?) ;D
Regards,
Josep
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I don't think that it "says nothing". You have to add one + one =?
1.) The Thread began by a Honda Europa Manager in an Africa Twin Forum
2.) The egagement of Honda at the Dakar and other Rallyes like the Tuareg-, Paraonen- or Moroccorallye
3.) The short sentence in an interview with an Japanese Honda Manager with the Magazine "MOTORRAD" in one of the edition winter 2012/2013 (i can't remember which one). In the general sense he said that there is e new development in the Endurosector - but it will take time to get a good product. Maybe a prototyp on EICMA in 2013???
4.) The Technical Manager of Honda Austria (i know him personal) said this winter ... " there is something new in Line" ...
So, my hope is that there ist a prototype on EICMA/IMOT this Autuumn and 2014 at the latest 2015 e new Modell like a CRF900???
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Hi Kurt,
When I asked Honda in 1994 if they would come up with an answer for the R1100GS and the Tiger 900, they also stated 'there is something in the pipeline'.
It took them till 1998 to present that answer at the September 1998 Intermot exhibition (revealing of the MK1 Varadero).
MOTORRAD has published an interview with Honda EU's Japanese boss and asked specifically after the absence of the Africa Twin XRV750 and a possible successor (comparing with f.e. the success of the F800GS and the Tiger 800).
The big man replied: 'We have not forgotten our Africa Twin'.
Like you, however, I keep my spirits and expectations up... although maybe wishful thinking... but the big plus is that Honda (finally) seems to see that their current way of approaching their (European) customers maybe not the right way is... ::)
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There is one way to get the AT back in production.
If the European Honda dealers co-operate and order 3000 units together Honda will start to produce it again
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I think 3000 are to less ... on my information it has to be 5000/year on a duration for 3 years ... so 15000 units
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I think 3000 are to less ... on my information it has to be 5000/year on a duration for 3 years ... so 15000 units
Agree... think also that these figures are closer to reality...
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I don´t think that there will be a new Africa Twin or Vara in the next few years. >:(
At our german Varadero meeting 3 weeks ago, were some guys from Honda Europe and from Japan, they discussed with some Vara drivers and listenend to the questions and remarks and looked at the Varaderos in front of the Hotel, took a lot of pictures.
But there was no "OK, wait a while and then we will ..."! The only gift was a study-print out of 1998 given to those who wanted to have a copy:
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I don´t think that there will be a new Africa Twin or Vara in the next few years. >:(
At our german Varadero meeting 3 weeks ago, were some guys from Honda Europe and from Japan, they discussed with some Vara drivers and listenend to the questions and remarks and looked at the Varaderos in front of the Hotel, took a lot of pictures.
But there was no "OK, wait a while and then we will ..."! The only gift was a study-print out of 1998 given to those who wanted to have a copy:
They have been around, those Honda guys... ;) Same print was given to all VCIM participants in Wales... ;D Same group. ;)
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Just curios what the Honda delegation at VIM#15 said??
They asked a lot of questions.
They listened a lot.
They said very little other than "they were disappointed the crosstourer was not selling well".
It was an expectable fact .... sorry but Honda has misunderstand several things the last 3 years, it was obviously their choice to pretend that they were deaf .Stewart im sure that you remember the LOUD voices in our past forum ,they were shouting to Honda ,and for me honestly the new KTM 1190 or perhaps the new Triumph 1200 will be more preferable than the CT. The CT is obvious that it can not replace our Varadero.
PS:I was wondering why Honda didnt came earlier to ask us or even better to make a contest in order to see how the globe Varadero community imagines the Varadero replacement?They were not curious about our opinion ,our preferences,our likes and dislikes from a future moto. Sorry but its a song called '' its too late for love ''.
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I think the CT shouldn't replace the Varadero as the Varadero shouldtn't replace the AT ... so we need a new Bike from Honda to continue the Line of the AT.
BTW ... i don't need the CT, the 1190 KTM ADV or the 1200 Explorer ... i don't need a bike with far more than 250 kg an more than 130 PS ... I need a bike with 200-220 kg an 80-90 PS ... 21"/18" wheels and so on, and so on ... in fact an new AT!
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What is the figures for the Crosstourer. How many been sold during first year?
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Kurt... as you know, I was invited at the official press launce of the CT in Catalonia, early 2012. At the presentation Honda made very, very clear that the CT is mend to replace both the Varadero and the ST1300 Pan European (which is still available, strangely enough... :o ::) )
Have to second Manos (Athanman) his posting. This community held a Varadero Inquiry as early as 1999. The outcome of this enquiry was shared with Honda. Honda participated with a large R&D team at our meeting in Sicily (2006) and Hungary (2008).
The results... are obviously for every one... Unfortunately.
Regarding sales figures of the Crosstourer... I don't know. The only thing I know is that the only new Crosstourers and VFR1200's I see on the road, are dealer's demobikes.
And Mikadero and Sebastian's CT's at this years VCIM... ;)
... Where I see new Tiger 1200 Explorers, the new KTM1190 and even the new R1200GS on almost every street corner.
What you don't see, won't sell. Despite the qualities of the product.
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Regarding sales figures of the Crosstourer... I don't know. The only thing I know is that the only new Crosstourers and VFR1200's I see on the road, are dealer's demobikes.
And Mikadero and Sebastian's CT's at this years VCIM...
I think there might be another one somwhere in Tel-Aviv ;)
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Honda participated with a large R&D team at our meeting in Sicily (2006) and Hungary (2008).
At Sicily i was part of the meeting ... and i think it was a great mistake from Honda ;D to send their people to the varadero community. The better way had been to send their team to a meeting of Africa Twin Drivers like the International Africa Twin Treffen (Meeting) at the Lissburg (http://www.africatwin.de/phpbb_x/viewtopic.php?t=21529) in Germany.
There would have get the engineers of Honda the right ideas ... ;)
The development of the Varadero with its 13 years of production is a wrong track with a dead end comparatively to the 25 years of production and success of a TransAlp or an Africa Twin ...
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Despite my 'love' for the Big Dero, I think you are right, Kurt.
But... being in production for almost 18 years (Africa Twin) without any evolution doesn’t provide a good prosperous future either (Africa Twin).
The Africa Twin stood still since the 650 was replaced for the 750 and some minor technical upgrades (which wasn't a real evolution, but only a minor modification).
For the Transalp you can at least say its engine did evolve on some level... (note... the question if that evolution was on the right evolutionary track is a total different one!)
To my modest opinion, the XL1000V Varadero is (still) the most underrated Honda big trail bike ever, where the Africa Twin is the most overrated.
It should have been Honda though, to build a bike which would be able to make a firm combination of the strengths of both bikes in a whole new concept.
Call the new bike 'Grand Transalp' or 'Africa Twin Raider', what ever.
Despite its qualities it has been always extremely overpriced (when the Varadero was introduced in 1998 on the Dutch market, the difference between the XRV750 Africa Twin was only € 450,-!) and underpowered (only 10 Bhp more than the Transalp 600, torque of the Transalp 650 was just as good). In fact, Honda should have evolved the XLV750R (RD01) in stead. That bike was (and is) still a headturner, despite its vaults. It was only kept in production for (I believe) 2 / 3 years in the early 1980ties.
The Transalp had to wear the original frame without major upgrades from the very first 600 in 1986, till the last 700 in 2012! That isn’t evolution. Species in nature disappear from the natural evolutionair scale as soon as their species can’t keep up with the evolution. It’s a natural process and unfortunately for Honda, the Transalp, Africa Twin but also the Varadero have become victims of that process.
I dare to predict that bikes like the VFR1200F and the 1200X Crosstourer will get extinct species within 5 years from now if nothing serious is changing at Honda’s R&D…
Where bikes like the TDM and also the Vstrom 650 are still strong runners in their segments…
I never have understood why any manufacturer would name a motorcycle after a beach resort in Cuba. The names Africa Twin and Transalp where as clear as it could be.
Maybe this excellent quote at the Africa Twin topic on our collegue- Forum ADVrider.com explains it all... ;D
According to Honda - my RD07A was built at the Hamamatsu factory in Japan
I agree that the RD03 had the highest build quality - the way I explain it is:
RD03 - designed & built by mechanics
RD04 - designed & built by mechanics with advice from accountants
RD07 - designed by accountants & built by mechanics
RD07A - designed & built by accountants
That said - I still think the RD07A is the best all round Africa Twin (well I think mine is anyway )
That's what our member Bogdan BC explained to the Honda guys at VCIM in Wales, last month... Stop scientist develop motorcycles (because they THINK what is good for us), start getting bikers develop them (because they KNOW what is good for us). ;D
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I never have understood why any manufacturer would name a motorcycle after a beach resort in Cuba.
They perhaps did it for the people who wanted to take a picture like this:
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I know, Bernard, you've got a couple like these
(http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Honda%20XLV750R%20%201.jpg)
I wouldn't mind a bike with shaft, or metallic plate under engine...
But I never liked these colourful engines Honda used to build back then. ;)
I believe a modern bike would have 2 more disks and ABS and catalisator, which (as pointed in Kurt's linked thread) would add a significant number of kg...
Finally, after having some serious problems with cooling in previous bikes, I promised myself I would buy only radiator equipped ones. Add some more kg here.
Well, again as in the aforementioned thread, a new, modern AT (or XLV750) like bike would perhaps be just too heavy or expensive or both. Or maybe not, I must admit I don't know the specs or prices of Tigers or F800GSs :o
Greetings,
Josep
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Im really enjoying reading your posts guys because sometimes we might have different opinions but concluding we all agree that we are all in love with our naughty plump and purred Varadero. Like the whisky traditions ... the oldest flavors costs more and lasts more . ;)
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Hello Josep
In accordance with the applicable and valid emission regulations in Europe (Euro 4 / Euro 5) it won't be possible to build a bike without liquid cooling - and, it is state of the art - even BMuu has now developed a new Boxermotor with Liquidcooling. And the new 1200GS isn't heavier than the old Air/Oil-cooled GS. So, there aren't more kg on this argument.
ABS - the new Bosch ABS in the 1190 KTM ADV has a weight of 0,9 kg - not sooo much than the ABS in our Deros. ;)
The Triumph Tiger 800X or the BMuu 800 GS (and the KTM 1190 ADV) have all this things ... 3 disks, Catalysator, Fuel Injection, ABS (the BMuu additional ASR, ESA), liquid cooling ... and the weight is below 220 kg!!!
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Josep... specially for you... ;D
They are available with less colourfull engines too! ;)
(http://varaderointernationalcom.h115942.serverkompetenz.net/XLV750R/Limited/site/XLV_001.JPG)
(http://varaderointernationalcom.h115942.serverkompetenz.net/XLV750R/Limited/site/XLV_004.JPG)
(Dirty and clean - this one is actually mine ;) )
And on specs... Did you know that that 'ancient' XLV750R was perhaps one of the heaviest big trail bike of its time (the GS80 was heavier!), but with near to 200 kg lighter than a modern day Transalp and over 30 kg (!) leighter than the Africa Twin!
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Do the XLV have a Double-Under Seat-Exhaust???? Please can you post a Pic from the rear?
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It is more or less comparable with the exhaust of the XL1000V Varadero, Kurt. So, not 'really' an underseat muffler as you see these days at modern super sport bikes, but a double aligned on both sides as a mirror image.
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Pic from the Internet:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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(http://www.bike.se/sites/default/files/imagecache/nodeimage_maincontent_full/bike/africatwin.jpg)
Swedish bikemagazine says that Honda has registered "Africa twin" as a trademark in the US
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Which magazine, Magnus? Could you perhaps upload a scan from the mentioned page?
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http://www.bike.se/nyheter/honda-africa-twin-pa-vag-tillbaka (http://www.bike.se/nyheter/honda-africa-twin-pa-vag-tillbaka)
IMHO: Think it is a photoshop example of a varadero back and Transalp front, with a Africa twin sticker added.
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EICMA 2013: Intervista a Dave Hancock - Honda- Moto.it (http://hhttp://youtu.be/gB4KxH2aM54?t=10m30s)
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Hopefully, we haven't to wait to long.
Greetings from the South of Germany
Rainer
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Honda 750 v twin enduro - here it is:
http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/12/cobra-rs750-scrambler.jpg (http://thekneeslider.com/images/2010/12/cobra-rs750-scrambler.jpg)
My VT750s has a HRC red, white & blue tank ;)
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Same movie as shared by Sky (Magnus)
EICMA 2013: Honda, preview video interview with Hancock and Hasegawa
Fast forward to 10:31 by clicking this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4KxH2aM54#t=631 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4KxH2aM54#t=631)
Pretty much an official confirmation towards a new AT, but no indication of when.
Transcript in italian: http://www.moto.it/news/eicma-2013-h...-hasegawa.html (http://www.moto.it/news/eicma-2013-h...-hasegawa.html)
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Same movie as shared by Sky (Magnus)
EICMA 2013: Honda, preview video interview with Hancock and Hasegawa
Fast forward to 10:31 by clicking this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4KxH2aM54#t=631 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB4KxH2aM54#t=631)
Pretty much an official confirmation towards a new AT, but no indication of when.
Transcript in italian: http://www.moto.it/news/eicma-2013-h...-hasegawa.html (http://www.moto.it/news/eicma-2013-h...-hasegawa.html)
Thanks for sharing Bernard.
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Bernard, could you please repost the link with the transcription?
I mean the full one, not the abridged useless version. ;D
Regards,
Josep
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This time, it seems it's finally for real. See:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Passione-Motori/Moto/01-07-2013/nuova-africa-twin-honda-20695394307.shtml#5 (http://www.gazzetta.it/Passione-Motori/Moto/01-07-2013/nuova-africa-twin-honda-20695394307.shtml#5)
It says that some Vito Cichetti, from Honda Italia, has confirmed that there'll be a new AT.
A twin indeed, and a revolutionary, off-road biased bike. Alleged to be in Köln next autumn.
Greetings,
Josep
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This time, it seems it's finally for real. See:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Passione-Motori/Moto/01-07-2013/nuova-africa-twin-honda-20695394307.shtml#5 (http://www.gazzetta.it/Passione-Motori/Moto/01-07-2013/nuova-africa-twin-honda-20695394307.shtml#5)
It says that some Vito Cichetti, from Honda Italia, has confirmed that there'll be a new AT.
A twin indeed, and a revolutionary, off-road biased bike. Alleged to be in Köln next autumn.
Greetings,
Josep
It sounds very interesting BUT .... HONDA should also be extra carefull with the price of the new AT. A new model in a expensive value wont be so welcomed.
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Happy, happy, happy... 2,5 hours drive to Collogne... ;D I know where I'm going to go next autumn!
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Hi Bernard,
I know, that's why I included a translation of what the article says (blah, blah, blah removed ;) ).
A closer look claims its source is Motociclismo, an Italian magazine. I have searched this one as well, and yes, here is this Italian Honda man claiming there'll be a new Africa Twin "Vito Cicchetti: 'Confermo: arriverà l'Africa Twin e sarà molto cattiva'" (I confirm, AT will come, and it'll be a naughty one).
But this is (seemingly) news from last November! >:(
After all, the whole thing may just be the typical "pick up a bit of some old news and build 3000 characters out of it" >:(
Sorry, I thought this was real news. :(
Regards,
Josep
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It is real news, Josep! ;D
Short Googletranslate quote...
"There are little details, but we are ready to present the new Africa Twin to the public at the Intermot International Motorcycle exhibition in Collogne, Germany, early October 2014. It will not be on the road before 2015. The patience of the loyal Africa Twin supporters is going to be rewarded, the bike will be equipped with many new features. The bikes design will be dedicated for offroad use, and quipped with a brand new 2-cylinder engine. Styling and design elements will remind to the old Africa Twins of the past"...
Btw...
Intermot 2014 is going to be held from October 1st till October 5th...
Best part... its only a 2,5 hrs drive from my place at 'German Autbahn Speed'...
Agenda at the office is already blocked! ;) And my brother has a very fast car... Its a Honda... ;)
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Thank you Josep; so now wait & see ... ;)
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Yes, true pokemi, but we can hope they go the right way ...
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I'm skeptical that Honda will come up with the goods, if anything, Honda has proved time and time again that customer feedback is an annoyance more than anything else. They prefer to tell us what we want.....
Will see....
It's true and a fault of many organizations when arrogance takes over.
JK
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I'm skeptical that Honda will come up with the goods, if anything, Honda has proved time and time again that customer feedback is an annoyance more than anything else. They prefer to tell us what we want.....
Will see....
That’s my first thought too, Pokemi.
But after having intensive chats with the huge Honda delegation which joined us at the last VCIM meeting in Wales, I think Honda now acknowledges that they have to 'act' and that there is no place anymore for arrogance...
But it still is Honda… A very strange company. F.e., all the Americans are shouting ‘bring us the Crosstourer, bring us the Varadero’. But Honda US blows the wisstle and thinks that in the US, there is only a customer marked for Goldwings and cruisers, where even small manufactures like Ducati and Aprilia make very good profits on their big trail bikes Multistrada and Caponord…
In Europe we are shouting for a proper Transalp/Africa Twin replacement. The only thing Honda does, is give us cheap budgetbikes like the CB500 / NC700-750, a overweight VFR1200F sportsbike with the fuelconsumption of a truck, a dressed up ancient VFR800i and a chopped ST1300 (hilarious!) which dates back 200 yrs…
But still… I have some (little) hope left that some one at the Honda management will see the light somewhere, sometime… Rumours for a new Africa Twin are at least 20 yrs old, but they have never been so strong as this time.
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Happy, happy, happy... 2,5 hours drive to Collogne... ;D I know where I'm going to go next autumn!
And I have less than 8 hours ;D
https://maps.google.dk/maps?saddr=Svinninge&daddr=K%C3%B6ln,+Tyskland&hl=da&ie=UTF8&sll=35.721988,-114.897766&sspn=0.780441,1.465302&geocode=FYw-UgMdZ-WuACkt9tgicYFNRjHwMlEdzK8ACg%3BFbs-CQMdlzRqACnlL6tpkSW_RzHwdypK_GAnBA&oq=k%C3%B6ln&t=m&mra=ls&z=6
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It's true and a fault of many organizations when arrogance takes over
True, but the arrogance often comes of being a long established market leader, able to afford the best people and ignoring the mostly irrelevant comments and suggestions from individuals with limited information, involved self interested nitch markets.
Anyone wanting a hot enduro style road bike there are plenty of low volume nitch market bike manufacturers to choose from.
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Small manufactures like Ducati and Aprilia make very good profits on their big trail bikes Multistrada and Caponord…
BMuuuuu Adv makes even better money in lack of competition. Alaske, desert, Great Lakes.., Well isn't that places to visit with an adventurer..
And I have less than 8 hours ;D
[/quote]
Might join you..
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There's a new trail bike in the market.
Very light and unpowered compared to a Varadero. Might be an option for my son in the future. ;D
(http://minsk-moto.com/pub/products/41/colors/940x592/color1_1.png)
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Re; 'Minsk' That looks 'the business' !
JK
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Looks goooooooooooood.
Josep, you have more info abot this MC?
Rainer
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Looks goooooooooooood.
Josep, you have more info abot this MC?
Rainer
Sure. It's a 250cc with some quite unusual tyre sizes. They claim they've done some long rally without any reliability problem :) . See:
http://www.minsk-moto.com/en/ (http://www.minsk-moto.com/en/)
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Never heard of this manufaturer before .... :-\
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Belarus???
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Yes it seems
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Yes, from Belarus, with love... looking at the Chinese influence in that country these days, its clear where the knowhow comes from...
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Yes, from Belarus, with love... looking at the Chinese influence in that country these days, its clear where the knowhow comes from...
Yes! The guys I got the info from found what bike this one's a copy from!
http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?6634-Zongshen-RX3-report (http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?6634-Zongshen-RX3-report)
http://en.zongshenmotor.com/?q=node/892 (http://en.zongshenmotor.com/?q=node/892)
Greetings,
Josep
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I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but the quality of Chinese bikes in UK is really very poor (& not just bikes): the cycle parts especially. The Russian influence may improve quality but I would check and double check beyond the admittedly good looks.
JK
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Had a look at today's MCN in the supermarket.
They are saying the bike is a few months from it's debut. Whether that is on the road or at one of the late shows is unknown.
They say the bike is a "1000cc parallel twin of all new design, wrapped in a twin spar ally frame using the recent 450 PD bike as inspiration".
They also say there is a possibility of 2 variants - one road, one serious off road.
They use their old "sources close to the factory" quote.
Probably the same source that said the VFR was going to be a V5..
Scan attached.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thai Honda Cross Challenge Team Promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whvbgqumkUw#ws)
Bloody brilliant... imagine, if they would have used the NC750X as bases in stead of the CB500X...
Someone has done some impressive DIY in a proper way... They should invite him to join the Honda R&D department to get some real biker mudd stains on those borring grey tie suites.
Great soundtrack too!
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imagine, if they would have used the NC750X as bases in stead of the CB500X..
It would weigh more than a Crosdresser!
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@tallguy. Don't think so; I think NC750X would be a great idea. As soon as there's a donor in the breaker's, that's a 'goer'.
JK
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Agree Jack ;)
The CB500x ergos and dimension are close a dirtbike and thus similar feel.
CB500x riders on the CB500x topic @ ADVrider have said they feel like a big dirtbike.
The NC700x/750x has a longer wheelbase and slower felling, but is said to work great off-road because of the lower center of gravity. It feels more big ADV bike off-road vrs the 500x quick dirtbike feel. I love the new 700/750 parallel layout of the engine too, which is brandnew, where the 500x is based on a old 20 yrs+ CB500 bike with some little modified tweeks (like the Crossrunner 800 which is actually an 15 yrs old VFR800i in a new costume)
Tthere are a few guys out there now putting tck80 front and k60 rear tires on both of these bikes w/ skid plates & riding them ADV style. Haven't seen a fork & spoked wheel conversion on the 700/750x yet, but it could be done...
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@Twoplugs; you know the NC engine is 1/2 a Honda Jazz, don't you?
JK
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@Twoplugs; you know the NC engine is 1/2 a Honda Jazz, don't you?
JK
I thought it was 1/2 Civic... ;D
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...where the 500x is based on a old 20 yrs+ CB500 bike with some little modified tweeks...
As far as I know the engine for the new CB500 models are brand new too.
And looking at those pictures it´s obvious that the only thing these two engines have in common, are the two cylinders... :)
(http://www.cycleworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/2013-Honda-CB500F_Detail_07.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Honda_CB500_twin.jpg/800px-Honda_CB500_twin.jpg)
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The NC700 is brand new, but technically, the CB500 isn't.
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Hmm...technically they are both just "Internal Combustion Engines", fundamentally as Nicolaus August Otto invented it in 1876 ;D
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The only Otto I know is Otto Diesel... ;)
Didn't he do something with underwear and jeans? ;D ;) 8)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_August_Otto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_August_Otto)
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You are taking my sarcasm far to serious, Bonne... ;) :-*
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Well, sometimes it´s difficult to se such things as sarcasm in a written word ;)
But...another thing, about the CB500 and the NC700/750. Looking at Hondas websides, in UK, Denmark, Sweden or whereever both engines are told to be "parallel-twins" despite that the CB500 is 180° and the NC700/750 is 270°. That means that these engines are "just" twins and not parallel-twins as parallel-twins are 360°, with the two pistons following each other up and down (in parallel). This type of engine was used by Triumph from 1937 together with Norton, BSA and others and later in Yamaha TX750 and XS650, Kawasaki Z400/750 and Honda CB400N. Nowadays some of the Triumph´s are still parallel-twins, Kawasaki W800 and even the F800 BMuu also uses this type of engine.
But, Honda are not the only one making this mistake, Yamaha XT1200, which is 270° too, are also told to be parallel-twin and even the Triumph models with 270° crankshaft, including the 1600cc Thunderbird are told to be parallel-twins...as if Triumph didn´t know what a real parallel-twin is... ::)
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parallel twins has little to do with the timing of pistons firing. It represents the configuration of the engine, two cylinders in line next to each other is a parallel twin regardless of firing rotation.
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Quite right MrKiwi. I thought I posted that but my battery died and I forgot.
While on the configuration subject, are you as annoyed as I am by the current misuse of 'in-line' by the twitterati of the moto media? What used to be called a 'straight' engine is now called 'in line', regardless of its orientation in the frame, ie, most Japanese multi cylinders being 'transverse' engined and definitely not 'in line'.
I'm a bit pedantic about English and it winds me up as much as some Americans saying 'Nucular'.
At least we are secure with our 'Vee twins': from the crank throw, are they 'in line'? I think Guzzis are transverse but somebody argued cranks with me.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_twin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_twin)
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And there are as well differences in movement of the pistons.
I.e. the bmuu GS is an 180° twin boxer (pistons move contrawise). There are as well 180° twins, where the piston don´t move contrawise.
Rainer
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If I'd bet money on the new Africa Twin, so it comes with an amazing 1,000 cc. Think it will be available in four verson. So we have to wait and see ...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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@meineDicke The famous BMuu (and DKW and Douglas &c.) is known as a 'Boxer' engine and is a 'horizontally opposed, flat twin.'
@ SBarker. Not sure your point aimed at me but 'In line' description applies only to the engine and not to orientation in the frame. If there is possibility for confusion, then different terminology should be used: the beauty of the English language.
That Wikipaedia listing could be where the confusion set in.
JK
(My bike is off the road: I'm bored).
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JK
(My bike is off the road: I'm bored).
...you're not alone ...another 10cm of snow today
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If I'd bet money on the new Africa Twin, so it comes with an amazing 1,000 cc. Think it will be available in four verson. So we have to wait and see ...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Better a test in flesh. A four verson option? I wish Honda will include the simplicity adjust of Triumph Explorer. :-\
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@Athanman
Yes, I have a "feeling" that it comes with several options. It's the customer who decides what type of setup you need. So we have to wait and see ...
;D ;D ;D ;D
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For what I know, Honda is thinking of two versions, a roadbased one, and a offroad one. Like the bik KTM, and the BMuu GS(A).
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well... If it goes up to my personal opinion, every Honda big trail bike which has to be considered as the real and spiritial follow-up to the XL1000V Varadero, is welcome here at VCI Forum. And that includes a new 1000cc Africa Twin which is closer to the Varadero than the VFR1200X Crosstourer is, even when the engine configuration is different aligned...
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Norwegian biker magazine mc-avisa have this news.. Still som drawings how it would look like in the end..
http://www.mc-avisa.no/index.php?id=381297&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=449926&cHash=2571a2bcbf6b90d4c40d4968cfb22847 (http://www.mc-avisa.no/index.php?id=381297&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=449926&cHash=2571a2bcbf6b90d4c40d4968cfb22847)
(http://www.mc-avisa.no/typo3temp/pics/3b332de682.jpg)
(http://www.mc-avisa.no/uploads/pics/Honda_Africa_Twin_1200___3.jpg)
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Thank you Magnus! V-twin or parallels ?
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Zebulon obvius answer... :P
Africa Twin or Africa Parallell??
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Quite right MrKiwi. I thought I posted that but my battery died and I forgot.
While on the configuration subject, are you as annoyed as I am by the current misuse of 'in-line' by the twitterati of the moto media? What used to be called a 'straight' engine is now called 'in line', regardless of its orientation in the frame, ie, most Japanese multi cylinders being 'transverse' engined and definitely not 'in line'.
I'm a bit pedantic about English and it winds me up as much as some Americans saying 'Nucular'.
At least we are secure with our 'Vee twins': from the crank throw, are they 'in line'? I think Guzzis are transverse but somebody argued cranks with me.
Yes I agree, the in-line is a short hand to say the cylinders are next to each in a straight line as opposed to a V configuration. However, to be technically correct it would be transverse in-line motor. Eg my Triumph Tiger 955 is an in-line 3 cylinder transversely mounted motor. The V configurations are mounted in line (varadero, KTM) or transversely (Moto Guzzi).
I'm not sure why cranks would matter in deciding if the motor is mounted in-line or transversely?
I sincerely hope the new Africa Twin comes to fruition, if so I'm going to wait to see what comes of it, otherwise I am sorely tempted to buy as KTM. Cheers from downunder, south of the border... 8)
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The pics shown by Magnus on the previous page, are ancient. ;D
The first pic was originally published in a 1998 MOTORRAD magazine. It was the year on which the XL1000V Varadero was revealed at the Munich Intermot Motorcycle exhibition.
The 2nd pic shows a little text 'design by' but that is really a rip-off. It was drawn by Varadero International Admin and boardmember Ratman and published on the previous forum.
Non of them reveal any clues how the new Africa Twin will look eventually. The only bike which does, is already existing: the 450cc bike on which Honda competed in the Dakar last January.
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So, we´re back to the twin/parallel discussion ;D
parallel twins has little to do with the timing of pistons firing.
Well, that´s exactly what it´s all about. It´s not two cylinders beside each other that define a
parallel-twin, that only makes it a twin.
In a parallel-twin it´s the two pistons following each other up and down that defines it, as they
work in parallel.
So, if rumers are true, the new Africa Twin will still be a Twin, not an Africa Parallel.
According to the in-line/transverse relating to the frame, discussion, it´s the crankshaft and only the
crankshaft that defines the direction of the engine. It doesn´t matter weather it´s a V-, Boxer- or a
Straight-engine.
That means that the Guzzi, BMuu Boxer, GoldWing, CX and ST1100/1300 all are in-line with
the frame, while the Varadero, CBR/F, NC, and VFR all are transverse to the frame.
If it wasn´t so, how on earth would you define this one?! ;D
(http://ing.dk/sites/ing/files/styles/w1120_reference_illustration/public/den_roede_baron.png?itok=1n4P91bw)
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As we've said @Bonne, it's a conundrum. Would you say that that radial is mounted 'in line'? Or that a Morris Mini Minor didn't have a transverse engine?
I think rather than 'crankshaft', it's often a matter of 'length or breadth'.
All 'grist to the mill'...how does that translate?
JK
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As we've said @Bonne, it's a conundrum. Would you say that that radial is mounted 'in line'? Or that a Morris Mini Minor didn't have a transverse engine?
I think rather than 'crankshaft', it's often a matter of 'length or breadth'.
No, it´s not a conundrum. In "engine language" it has always been so. And yes, that radial engine is mounted in-line, as the crankshaft
is in-line with the frame ;D
In the Morris Minor the engine is mounted in-line:
(http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Morris/59_Morris_Minor_1000_Traveller_DV_05_HH_010.jpg)
But in the Morris Mini it´s mounted transverse:
(http://italianhorses.net/gallery/tamiya/tammini/Gallery/Mini08.JPG)
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@Bonne. we're back to the start, about commentators calling the MGP Yamaha etc. 'In Line' engines. They are 'straight' and transverse; like the Mini.
...And by the strict definition you use, the Vara is a transverse Vee and the Guzzi 'in line'.
JK
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PS. Parallel is the cylinder configuration; the pistons are parallel what ever their relative positions. That's geometry.
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I have to respectfully disagree, I stand by my original comments not that it matters one iota...
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I defend to the last, your right to disagree!
JK
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Glad to hear that jackyork, as long as it´s only verbally...because, I´m against violence...that I will fight for to the last drop of blood!!!
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@Bonne, chivalry is not dead here in UK.
Here's one I saw today, 21,000 km. euro 5,.660 . Maybe for Bernard's collection? Nice registration number too.
JK
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
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My Honda agent received a very, very nice MK1 Transalp yesterday... Tempted, but I could resist... ;D
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Tataaa!
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Funny project ! :D
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Seeing Two Plugs on a GROM would be amusing ;D
It's a learners mini-bike.
The seat is only 75cm high !
http://powersports.honda.com/2014/grom.aspx (http://powersports.honda.com/2014/grom.aspx)
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SB... lets get one as Demo to VCIM this year in Geiranger! I Wanna Testa! ;D ;D ;D
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Seeing Two Plugs on a GROM would be amusing ;D
It's a learners mini-bike.
The seat is only 75cm high !
Now I recognize it! They have them in Castle Honda of Castleford. It's like the ultimate Monkey bike,you would have wanted as a teenager.
JK
http://powersports.honda.com/2014/grom.aspx (http://powersports.honda.com/2014/grom.aspx)
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Just bought the article as PDF via www.motorrad-online.de; (http://www.motorrad-online.de;) will work on a translate summary ASAP.
(http://www.motorradonline.de/sixcms/media.php/11/thumbnails/Neue-Honda-Afr.-Twin_quer.3160968.jpg.3160984.jpg)
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Techspecs:
200kg (fueled) / 180kg dry
20L fuel capacity
100Bhp/Pk
250mm suspension
21” front / 17” rear
Paralleltwin engine, 1000cc
Unique offroad- ABS brakes
Unique offroad traction control
Estimated price tag (Germany): € 10.000,- (!!!)
Presentation: INTERMOT Cologne (Germany) or EICMA Milano (Italy)
Rumours (not mentioned in the article) says that there will be a roadbased version, and a proper offroad version.
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VIM#17 will be the right place to have some tests of these bike ! ::) ;D ;)
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Agree. But I am hoping to have a go on it (much) earlier... ;D
Read: I-CAN'T-WAIT!
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Rumour says it will be 4 different versions.
From touring via adventure up to Dakar class
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A good read...
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... But a good read doesn't make it a good ride too ... ;D
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I'd really like to see the finished product, could see myself on one of these. I've had to return the KTM to KTM NZ, so I'm back to riding my Tiger. The difference between the KTM 1190 and the Tiger 955i is huge, bikes have come such a long way in 7 years...
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Been this WE at my HONDA-dealer. He told me, he has seen the bike and it looks like the AT and not as shown at motorrrad.de
Rainer
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Been this WE at my HONDA-dealer. He told me, he has seen the bike and it looks like the AT and not as shown at motorrrad.de
Rainer
Your Honda agent is right, Rainer.
The Motorrad drawning is based on the 450 ralleyraid bike on which Honda competed in the last Dakar and has lessor nothing in common with the new supposed Africatwin.
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Good news because I don't like very much this drawing ... :-[
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We'll wait and see. Introduction at Intermot is an NOGO, EICMA, later this year in Milano, uncertain. Maybe only a prototype.
It will have a state-of-the-art ABS... And unique for Honda... Off-switchable!
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Got this picture
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/08/yvynenej.jpg)
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Nice picture... if we still were in the 20th century ;D
Those tyres, those disk coverings,... if they didn't want to photoshop a CR (like the Germans did), they could've photoshopped a CrossTourer instead ;D
Looking forward to seeing the real thing. After all, I'm likely to need a new bike in one year's time... ;)
Greetings,
Josep
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Saw this today...
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/news/newsresults/general-news/2014/may/can-the-new-africa-twin-steal-the-gs-crown/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/news/newsresults/general-news/2014/may/can-the-new-africa-twin-steal-the-gs-crown/)
So, Honda is just months away from launching an all-new Africa Twin boasting a 1000cc parallel-twin... :o Cheers from downunder...
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I'm just as well waiting for the new "AffenTwin". BUT now my Dero is fully equipped with all the important add on´s, so I'm a little sad if I'll change the MC.
Rainer
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Meine Dicke: That's the woman inside us. When fully satisfied, it is time to start over.
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The fantasy used at the MCN bureaus is maybe even bigger than at Motorrad... ;)
Its unlikely that the new CRF1000 will have dual headlights. The drawing in MCN is nothing more or less than an photoshopped-tweeked RD07 (old) Africa Twin.
Honda is clearly NOT putting the new bike on the market to compete with the BMuu GS. The Crosstourer is on the Honda shells for that part of the marked. Honda is eager (according to my source) to drill for an complete new piece of the big trail bike marked between the popular 800cc class and the bigger 1200's.
Estimated price-tag will be around € 10.000,-/€ 14.000,- depending on the amount of taxes you have to pay (so 12.000,00 in my country and 24.000 in Sweden... ;)
Latest... Honda seems to be shopping for a new supplier for the accessory line... Something German... I'm just guessing but I guess that at the headquarters in Nippon, some one is a little displeased with the quality of Givi which is the current supplier... ? ::) :-X
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A readable scan of the MCN article can be viewed here:
http://f.cl.ly/items/131m1T3u0v46471b0y2V/New-AT-MCN.jpg (http://f.cl.ly/items/131m1T3u0v46471b0y2V/New-AT-MCN.jpg)
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Latest... Honda seems to be shopping for a new supplier for the accessory line... Something German... I'm just guessing but I guess that at the headquarters in Nippon, some one is a little displeased with the quality of Givi which is the current supplier... ? ::) :-X
The message eventually reaches the ears of someone who cares. It will of course mean a price increase and a slight reduction in quality.......
JK
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Think we have to change on the title of this forum; it seems to be a CRF 1000 instead of CBF 1000 (four cylinders...) !!! ;)
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The message eventually reaches the ears of someone who cares. It will of course mean a price increase and a slight reduction in quality.......
JK
That prices will go up would be no surprise to me, Jack. Fact is that quality will for sure not reduce, but will only get better. No offence with Givi (which is the supplier for the Varadero & Crosstourer Honda Original accessory line), but if it was about placing a bet regarding quality, I would put my money on Touratech and not on Givi... ;)
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The Honda guy I had a few hours ago: "we have no new bike for instance." & "crosstourer is not successor of Varadero, it's just journalist literature" ... ;D ;D ;D
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Off topic: Since I had the privilege to be at the Crosstourer press release in Tarragona...
Honda DID present the Crosstourer as successor to both the Varadero ánd the Pan European.
It was latterly introduced (I quote) as an “Sophisticated crossover between the touring qualities of the Pan European and the Varadero”.
So it is not 'journalistic literature', but 'Honda Literature'. Perhaps your Honda guy isn't completely aware what really is going on within the Honda organisation? ;D ;D ;)
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We will see a new CRF 1000, reasonably confident that will happen...
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New picture of the new African Twin.
http://www.bike.se/nyheter/ny-skiss-pa-africa-twin (http://www.bike.se/nyheter/ny-skiss-pa-africa-twin)
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New picture of the new African Twin.
http://www.bike.se/nyheter/ny-skiss-pa-africa-twin (http://www.bike.se/nyheter/ny-skiss-pa-africa-twin)
What is been written next to the head light ...?? '' IRAKLIS'' ? Does anyone know what this word means? If you dont allow me to tell you ... Heracles (Iraklis in Greek) was gate keeper of Olympus, god of heroes, sports, athletes, health, agriculture, fertility, trade, oracles and divine protector of mankind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles)
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(http://www.bike.se/sites/bike.se/files/styles/medium/public/images/2014/07/africa_twin_skiss.jpg?itok=mjreasAN)
;)
I love the big protector windscreen ! ;D
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Fake again and not even close 2 the real thing. Iraklis is most likely the creative spirit who came up with this nonsenses... ;D ;)
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Seems there are more chance to see it in Milano Eicma then in Köln intermot .... ;)
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I like the photo and certainly Mr Honda has generated enough hype on this bike over the last couple of years....let's hope the price tag is closer to Suzuki V-Strom than it is to the Crosstourer.......
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Still no news from Intermot 2014 on this?
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Still no news from Intermot 2014 on this?
Read the treat. EICMA early november! ;D
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Still no news from Intermot 2014 on this?
Read the treat. EICMA early november! ;D
Oh that's just boring 8), you mean we have to wait another month, ha >:(