Choose a new name for Honda-Adventure-Riders International Meetings

[james.mc]

To anyone that reads this thread - No matter if you post or not.
Please vote in the poll so that we get a fair representation of members thoughts through discussion and/or voting.


Subject: Choose a new name for Honda-Adventure-Riders International Meeting
The Poll will run for 30 days.
Voting closes: August 06, 2017
Edit: Each member can vote on up to 3 options

I'm aware that there was a Poll covering this in October 2016, but feel that the options erred on some sentimental values rather than a true stab at moving forward.  I believe the option to keep the name Varadero International Meeting as the name used for Honda Adventure Riders Meetings was a flawed attempt at hanging on to an old out of date name.  It must be clear to a lot of people that the two names Honda Adventure Riders and Varadero International Meeting do not work well together, as one suggests a broad spectrum of adventure rider and bikes and the other is limited to a meeting for just one named model that is out of production.

As Forum members you are all invited to PLEASE add what you think about this general proposal as to how the Forum and it’s associated International Meetings needs to move forward.  This is bigger than just an admin decision.  It needs to be all our existing active members having their say and voting accordingly. 

Note:  ‘Varadero International Meeting’ (VIM) is not an option in the Poll because this discussion is not about keeping an old name. The Poll has been posted so that members (not just admin) choose an entirely new name to enable Honda Adventure Riders to move forward with an appropriate name for meetings.

The VIM in Andorra is the 20th anniversary of VIM. The Varadero International Meetings have been a great achievement to date and interesting times have been had. 
Since VIM first started, it went from a small group keeping in touch (via a mailing list) ——> to hundreds of Varadero owners attending ——>  to a gradual decline in numbers.  The reduction in Varadero attendance to meetings and posts in this Forum will continue.  We  all know that, and have to admit it to ourselves.

A few of us admins and members feel its now time to progress to a new level.  VIM 20 would be a natural end point for the name Varadero International Meeting.  I’d be surprised if there will many Varadero’s at the 20th Varadero International Meeting in Andorra, and I would love to be proven wrong, but times are changing, people are selling their Varadero’s and buying new bikes. I’m sure a lot of previous Varadero owners will buy Africa Twins.  I did! ...and later other Honda ADV bikes.
So, the forum and its associated International Meetings must change with the times and keep in line with new bike model ownership by way of opening its doors to all Honda ADV bikes and riders.

There is no sense in hanging on to Varadero International Meeting as a name for International meetings supported by the Honda-Adventure-Riders Forum, so its time to change.

Timing of the renaming process

• The new name would come into effect for the International meeting planned for 2019.
• The new name would be used for planning purposes from the time the poll closes with the exception of 2018 VIM20.

Summary of Forum and Meeting Development:

• 2018 (VIM 20) would be the last Varadero International Meeting (VIM) supported by Honda Adventure Riders Forum  (VIM history to be kept in the Forum)
• 2019 would be the first newly named meeting as a result of this Poll, also supported by Honda Adventure Riders Forum (History to be kept in the Forum).
• The Forum should be seen to be ‘Honda-Adventure-Riders in all respects in Forum name, Meeting name and types of bikes.
  
• The Honda-Adventure-Riders forum should be truly International in its membership approach.
• The logo/banner should reflect the name and type of Honda-Adventure-Riders forum.
• The International meetings should be seen and named to include the wording Honda-Adventure-Riders.

   
Only then will there be a chance of keeping the International meetings alive in Europe and the rest of the world with decent numbers attending the meetings and posting in the Forum.

Please suggest another option for a meeting name to be added to the Poll if you have one.

[meine dicke]

My opinion:

Subject: Choose a new name for Honda-Adventure-Riders International Meeting
The Poll will run for 30 days.

I'm aware that there was a Poll covering this in October 2016, but feel that the options erred on some sentimental values rather than a true stab at moving forward.  I believe the option to keep the name Varadero International Meeting as the name used for Honda Adventure Riders Meetings was a flawed attempt at hanging on to an old out of date name. [This is the old historical name of the meeting.] It must be clear to a lot of people that the two names Honda Adventure Riders and Varadero International Meeting] do not work well together, as one suggests a broad spectrum of adventure rider and bikes and the other is limited to a meeting for just one named model that is out of production. [But elected as recognition to the bike which was the origine of the meeting.]

As Forum members you are all invited to PLEASE add what you think about this general proposal as to how the Forum and it’s associated International Meetings needs to move forward.  This is bigger than just an admin decision. [So it is necessary to have again the option to keep the traditional, historical name "VIM".] It needs to be all our existing active members having their say and voting accordingly. 

Note:  ‘Varadero International Meeting’ (VIM) is not an option in the Poll because this discussion is not about keeping an old name. [So you manipulate the vote in your sence.]The Poll has been posted so that members (not just admin) choose an entirely new name to enable Honda Adventure Riders to move forward with an appropriate name for meetings.

The VIM in Andorra is the 20th anniversary of VIM. The Varadero International Meetings have been a great achievement to date and interesting times have been had. 
Since VIM first started, it went from a small group keeping in touch (via a mailing list) ——> to hundreds of Varadero owners attending ——>  to a gradual decline in numbers.  The reduction in Varadero attendance to meetings and posts in this Forum will continue.  We  all know that, and have to admit it to ourselves.

A few of us admins [Only those who have voted last election not for "VIM".] and members [Most members, who did elect at last vote - 6 months ago -, voted at last election  for "VIM".] feel its now time to progress to a new level.  VIM 20 would be a natural end point for the name Varadero International Meeting.  I’d be surprised if there will many Varadero’s at the 20th Varadero International Meeting in Andorra, and I would love to be proven wrong, but times are changing, people are selling their Varadero’s and buying new bikes. I’m sure a lot of previous Varadero owners will buy Africa Twins.  I did! ...and later other Honda ADV bikes.
So, the forum and its associated International Meetings must change with the times and keep in line with new bike model ownership by way of opening its doors to all Honda ADV bikes and riders.

There is no sense in hanging on to Varadero International Meeting as a name for International meetings supported by the Honda-Adventure-Riders Forum, so its time to change. [Totally disagree, this is a question of tradition]

Timing of the renaming process

• The new name would come into effect for the International meeting planned for 2020.
• The new name would be used for planning purposes from the time the poll closes with the exception of 2019 VIM20.

Summary of Forum and Meeting Development:

• 2018 (VIM 20) would be the last Varadero International Meeting (VIM) supported by Honda Adventure Riders Forum  (VIM history to be kept in the Forum)
• 2019 would be the first newly named meeting as a result of this Poll, also supported by Honda Adventure Riders Forum (History to be kept in the Forum).
• The Forum should be seen to be ‘Honda-Adventure-Riders in all respects in Forum name, Meeting name and types of bikes.
  
• The Honda-Adventure-Riders forum should be truly International in its membership approach.
• The logo/banner should reflect the name and type of Honda-Adventure-Riders forum.
• The International meetings should be seen and named to include the wording Honda-Adventure-Riders.

   
Only then will there be a chance of keeping the International meetings alive in Europe and the rest of the world with decent numbers attending the meetings and posting in the Forum. [Again totally disagree, but yes we have to open the forum to HONDA adventure bikes without change the traditional, historical name of the meeting.]

Please suggest another option for a meeting name to be added to the Poll if you have one.

Greetings from the South of Germany
Rainer alias meine dicke

[james.mc]

Timing of the renaming process
The new name would come into effect for the International meeting planned for 2020.
The new name would be used for planning purposes from the time the poll closes with the exception of 2019 VIM20.

The above dates from the original post have been corrected to:

The new name would come into effect for the International meeting planned for 2019.
The new name would be used for planning purposes from the time the poll closes with the exception of 2018 VIM20.

Thanks to Nysse for sending me a PM on this.

[Two Plugs]

I consider this poll almost as INSULTING and I totally disagree with its purpose; both as admin- as as founder. It just shouts: I am New, and want to do it different.

For the rest I copy the remarks made by Reiner.

[Skye]

In the Honda and the adventurerbikes community everyone knows what the Varadero is and is rather now cult, if you coming on a carburettor one.

Voted for the VIM name due to its well known and 2nd reason, no abbrevation is suited for the new forumname.

Its easier to call it the Africa Twin meeting, if there is the way we are heading. I don't mind.
Crosstourer, Crossrunner X, Varadero, Transalp and of course old Africa Twins are always welcome.

[james.mc]

I went to add to the poll the option: Varadero International Meeting - VIM as per my original post inviting people to add any other suggestions and note it has been added already and voted upon which is fair enough.

[james.mc]

I consider this poll almost as INSULTING and I totally disagree with its purpose; both as admin- as as founder. It just shouts: I am New, and want to do it different.

For the rest I copy the remarks made by Reiner.

The Poll is not meant to be almost INSULTING to anyone. It is fair because any member can vote or discuss the topic and any member can suggest a name to be added and vote on that when it is added.  I personally didn’t add the VIM option for reasons I clearly stated, but I did not ever say it couldn’t be suggested or added.  If anyone feels almost  insulted by the poll, and the reasons behind it, then that is beyond my control.

What's the driving force behind this?
Look around the Forum at the lack of new members and posts.  Activity is very poor at best. Look at the reducing VIM attendance numbers and maybe think why that might be, and what the trend will be over the next few years.  Eventually,  the attendance numbers, with the Varadero as long distant memory, will dwindle to a few dedicated members around a camp fire to where it all started. What happens after that?  Being insulted, or even angry, at a way to try and stem the tide is not a productive way forward.  A more positive approach would be to look to what can be initiated to reverse the trend.
I've taken a good hard look at what the problems might be and how to alleviate them for the benefit of all members and the Honda ADV Riders community as a whole, it certainly not for my personal benefit.  If someone doesn't see a problem then that’s not my fault and should not be taken as an insult!

Bernard, If you are referring to me as being new then I could take that as insulting (but I won't) when you consider that it was me that registered the original International Varadero Forum domain name and started the International Varadero Forum in the first place.
Yes, I may have been out of the Varadero/CrossTourer loop for a few years, but there is no way I am new to the concept of VIM or the running of an international Honda ADV Forum that has supported VIM since around 2004.

There is no personal agenda nor gain on my part and there is no intention to INSULT anyone.
All that is being done is trying to look at this from the outside in, with a fresh approach.  If members don't want that fresh approach and feel that it encroaches on traditions and sentiment and are going to be insulted by it then I'll easily step back and allow nature to take its course.

The poll is just as it says.  It’s a Poll. Nothing more. I outlined the reasons for the poll and my reasons for adding it in the first place.  Members are free to make alternative suggestions, as invited to in my post. Admins are free to add alternative suggestions.  Members are free to vote and discuss this as they wish. Which they are doing.
It’s a democratic process and not a personal thing!

regards
James Mc

[meine dicke]

My short statement to the future of VIM:


I´m member of the German Varadero Forum and of the International Varadero Forum.

Both I´m joining because first I did ride a Varadero, second because I´m willing to hold the spirit of the MC Varadero high and third to meet people with the same thinking.
The two first mentioned points are the most heavy points to me to be at these both forums. And yes, as well I want to meet people with the same thinking or with the spirit of the Varadero in their blood.

If I only want to meet people riding a HONDA ADV, I also can join meetings at the AFRICA TWIN scene or the CT scene. There are a lot of former Varadero riders who I know very well, but as well a lot of aliens, I guess most of them, not knowing the Varadero.

If we want to increase the activity of the International Varadero Forum and its meetings for the nearer future, we have to find a way to get new members buying the older Varaderos and looking for a grouping where they can exchange thinking, questions and opinions about their MC.

Having a look at the far future now, it´s to early to do such basic changes as you want to do. This should be done after we fished the new riders of old Varaderos from the market and embedded them in our comunity.

And btw after the poll is before the poll. We can´t do such efforts every 6-month period.


Greetings from the South of Germany
Rainer alias meine dicke

PS:
At Germany we have saying: A new broom sweeps clean.
But as experience from my previous job I did: First have a "longtime" look at the system before changing it, the predecessors have also thought of something.

[SB]

We have to face the facts :

• New members are not joining the forum at the same rate as previously
• The number of Vardero's on the road is slowly decreasing
• The number of people attending the annual meeting is dropping
• At the last "Varadero International Meeting" we were close to Varadero's being in the minority

The annual meeting is about going to new places, making new friends and meeting old ones. If the current trend continues we won't be able to do either of those.

I know we had a vote 6 months ago and decided to revert back to "VIM" but looking back I think that was the wrong choice.

I also think we need to change the format of the vote to increase the number of choices and allow members to choose all the options they like rather than just having a single vote.

[Skye]

Problem is that forums lost their role to the social medias,
Easier sharing media, like button etc. Advantage for forums is the archive and track history.

But within a facebook group, just pop the question and people who know has a direct answer. Not even need for google.

That is why this forum loosing activity, promoting VIM in facebook might get more people to join in meetings to get new members of the community. Its all about marketing, but we don't still want it to big. 100 attendence its good, 500 is to much

[james.mc]

....I also think we need to change the format of the vote to increase the number of choices and allow members to choose all the options they like rather than just having a single vote.

Edit: Each member can now vote on up to 3 options
If you wish to vote on more options and you have already voted. 
1) Remove your vote
2) Choose up to 3 options and vote again.

[james.mc]

We have to face the facts :

• New members are not joining the forum at the same rate as previously
• The number of Vardero's on the road is slowly decreasing
• The number of people attending the annual meeting is dropping
• At the last "Varadero International Meeting" we were close to Varadero's being in the minority

The annual meeting is about going to new places, making new friends and meeting old ones. If the current trend continues we won't be able to do either of those.

I know we had a vote 6 months ago and decided to revert back to "VIM" but looking back I think that was the wrong choice.

I also think we need to change the format of the vote to increase the number of choices and allow members to choose all the options they like rather than just having a single vote.

Stewart has made valid points that are aligned with my point of view on this matter.

[james.mc]

...........If we want to increase the activity of the International Varadero Forum and its meetings for the nearer future, we have to find a way to get new members buying the older Varaderos and looking for a grouping where they can exchange thinking, questions and opinions about their MC.......

Please don't take this the wrong way but, to be correct, this Forum is no longer called the International Varadero Forum.  I agree that it was once called the International Varadero Forum.  These days Forum name and the URL does not suggest that it is.  As a point of note: This change was made before I returned to the Forum.

Personally I think the change was the correct thing to do even though I had nothing to do with it.

[SB]

How about "Vim - The Honda Adventure Riders Meeting" ?

[Two Plugs]

How about "Vim - The Honda Adventure Riders Meeting" ?

Would tick the right boxes... 👍