Author Topic: About ABS, how it works ?  (Read 5139 times)

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Tonyco

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About ABS, how it works ?
« on: May 19, 2014, 15:26:40 »
Hello,
I have a question about ABS on Varadero '09. I have around 17 000 km on it but I can not figured out how exactly ABS works. I never fill it works during the ride. I have two times with extreme stopping and rear tire slip so I almost  fall on the ground, no ABS work on rear tire. I try the bike on sandy road to stop with hard pressing the front brake and ABS works just fine, again try hard pressing rear brake and ABS not working, the tire slip. All this tests are with low speed, but with high speed for the rear is the same situation.
So my conclusions are that ABS is applied only for front brake but no applied on rear brake.
What do you think ?

JosepM

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 17:13:16 »
I'd swear my ABS rear works as well.
I usually tackle a certain speed bump near my house while using the rear brake. As soon as the rear wheel is beginning to lift up the ground, I notice something which I believe is the ABS unbraking.
You say you tested to brake hard on gravel?

Good luck,

Josep

Madero

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 18:59:06 »
From my Haynes manual:

" The abs prevents the wheels from locking up under hard braking or on uneven road surfaces. A sensor on each wheel transmits information about the speed of rotation to the abs controlunit. If the unit senses that a wheel is about to lock, it releases brake pressure to that wheel momentarily, preventing a skid."

The abs system is self-checking and is activated when the ignation switch is turned on. The abs indicator light will come on and will remain on until road speed increases above 6 mph, then it will go off.

If the indicator light does not come on initially there is a fault in the system. My Haynes has 3 pages with fault diagnoses. :o

Since the Varadero has a combined front/rear braking system, a problem with the brake-balance can also been caused by a malfunction/mal adjustment of the proportional control valve.

Madero

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 20:41:07 »
Since the Varadero has a combined front/rear braking system, a problem with the brake-balance can also been caused by a malfunction/mal adjustment of the proportional control valve.

Just read the 'brake'-chapter of my Haynes again carefully : there is no information that the proportional controlvalve can be adjusted to set the brakebalance front-rear.
The valve can't be overhauled and need to be replaced completely when broken.

Operating the front brake lever activates each front brake caliper and a proportion of the rear caliper, the amount depending upon how hard the front brake lever is applied. The left front caliper is hinged and linked to the rear caliper via a secondary master cylinder and the control valve. The amount of pressure (or hinged movement) by the left front caliper can't be adjusted either.

Tonyco

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2014, 09:52:49 »
Hum,
I buy the bike on 8000 km and still in warranty. In the beginning I was with stock bad tires and once in fast cornering in the mountain I was with more speed in the turn and in front of my there was a BUS so I kick rear break and this was the first time I notice that rear wheel blocks and the bike start sliding on rear tire. There comes time to change brake fluid, I do the job by my own with pump and everything was OK. I change tires to Anakee 3 and in some other ride again I notice that rear tire blocks and bike sliding. The ABS light work normal it is light up when start the bike and after I go on certain speed it goes off, I try with ABS lamp goes off to put the bike on central stand and to put on first gear, than the ABS detects that rear wheel spinning but front not and ABS light comes on again. The sensors are OK in that way. I try on concrete with sand to stop hard with front brake and ABS is working just fine, than I try again on the same surface to hard brake rear and it sliding and see the trace on concrete. Before I go riding every time I check the tires for pressure. The bike is in excellent condition everything is changed on time, tires are new but rear tire sliding. Do some of you make test for exact braking with front and rear tire and can confirm that ABS work equal on front and rear tire ? 

JosepM

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 10:07:31 »
Sorry, I am afraid I know no mechanics. Nor dare I perform a risky test  :(

I have just remembered Bonne's tale. He went down a slippery tunnel thanks to his rear ABS working as expected.
http://www.vci-forum.com/index.php?topic=470.msg6308#msg6308
Or at least, that's what I understand. Maybe you could send him a PM.

Good luck,

Josep

Tonyco

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 10:15:15 »
Sorry, I am afraid I know no mechanics. Nor dare I perform a risky test  :(

I have just remembered Bonne's tale. He went down a slippery tunnel thanks to his rear ABS working as expected.
http://www.vci-forum.com/index.php?topic=470.msg6308#msg6308
Or at least, that's what I understand. Maybe you could send him a PM.

Good luck,

Josep

I check the tread but he block tire on first gear not on brake so after that he explains that push very careful the rear brake in case not to block again, but he didn't mansion if the ABS really helps. I will wait for Bonne to get feed back here.

Jyrays

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 19:51:32 »
If your engine stall during emergency braking it can cause rear tire locking. Did you use clutch?

It is not needed to use rear brake lever at all, CBS delivers needed brake force at rear any case.
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Tonyco

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2014, 08:49:56 »
Yes I use the clutch at all the time especially when do test ride. I ride before bike with ABS and when push hard rear brake it works, but here on Varadero it is not working. But if some one can confirm for sure he test this and it works it will be good to know. Also my tests and situation that I noticed rear brake ABS not working was with low speed may be all the time below 40 km/h, may be it works with more than 40 km/h. Front brake tests were with around 20 km/h and it works just fine.

Jyrays

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 09:25:44 »
It should operate speeds over 10 km/h, obvıously you have somethıng wrong.
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welshwizard

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2014, 10:21:47 »
Hi folks. One way to sort this out would be for Tonyco to take his bike to a vehicle test centre which has a 'rolling road' facility. It might cost €30 - €50 for a 20min slot, but he and the vehicle tester, preferably an experienced motorbike technician, would find out under test conditions if there was a real fault, or if this is just a quirk of the system. The rolling road speed can be infinitely adjustable, so there might even be a 'blind spot' at a certain speed where his rear sensor can't 'see' the rear wheel is about to lock up.
Just a suggestion before he decides to start replacing various components in his ABS system.
:-)

Jyrays

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2014, 12:34:10 »
If the wheel sensor cannot read the speed the ABS light is on. So that cannot be the problem.
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Bønne

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2014, 18:44:44 »
I check the tread but he block tire on first gear not on brake so after that he explains that push very careful the rear brake in case not to block again, but he didn't mansion if the ABS really helps
You´re right, the ABS didn´t get activated, I managed to carefully hold it on the rear brake without blocking. But, as that extra security, I was glad having the ABS system in fact I couldn´t avoid blocking.

I have never made tests with the ABS system, I think I just expect it to work. And that very few times I´ve had it activated, it has been working, but this has been the front brake lever and the ABS on the front wheel.

The first time was on my way home from work, with several cars driving ahead of me, it was raining cats and dogs when suddenly the woman (well, it must have been a woman!), second car ahead of my, desided she should turn left; no indicator, no warning, just braking! and turning! The car right in front of me had no other choise than to brake too and neither had I! That´s where the ABS got activated! And it worked!
Plan your ride, ride your plan.

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Jyrays

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2014, 21:56:34 »
I have been doing brake type approvals for trucks... I should know how they work and if they work...
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SB

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Re: About ABS, how it works ?
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2014, 10:42:16 »

If you look at http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/brake/p6.html you will see that the Combined CBS/ABS system for Large sports bikes and tourers has 2 modulator units.

The ABS Varadero parts fiche listing that I have shows 2  off  "MODULATOR ASSY., ABS   57100-MCW-D11" One for the front and one for the rear.

If you can find two modulator units on your bike then the ABS should work independently on each wheel.



 

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